quote: What is the evidence for Anglo-Saxon Pagan oath taking?

Some AS Bishops such as Wulfstan & Aelric edicts specifically denounce making oaths to Heathen Gods or  'devils' which would seem to confirm that Saxon Heathens followed the same well documented practices on oaths as the Norse e.g. Icelandic gothi has to wear oath ring for people to take oaths on - minimum of 2 ounces of silver but up to 20 in some cases. (Landnamabok)

Pete Jennings

Hello Pete,

I’ve often thought that the swearing on the temple oath ring of Iceland was either a formalisation of the age old custom of ring-giving between the lord and his warband to gain loyalty or the actual custom itself merely misunderstood by later writers.

Best wishes,
Ashley

Perhaps but I think your being to literal with Nerthus.If I take an idea and a feeling from SW England circa 2012 and move it to California 50 years later and then somebody asks my great great children about the idea.

Also how are we even sure that Nerthus of tacticus was worshipped/looked the same to the Angles during the migration period.You could argue that Woden is diffrent  to Odin Wotan ect.Diffrent times diffrent landscapes.

I understand, but a counterargument could be said for the Amish (and Thanksgiving?) – That ideas could be retained (and adapted to suit?) by those migrating. Also, it could be that the calendar came to Britain with the migration, which makes sense if they had adopted the Roman week by then, in which case any evolution of Nerthus – Hrethe had already occurred within the original locale (and would presumably continue its evolution there) and was then brought to England, no doubt taking the evolution in a different direction. I totally understand what you are saying, of course, and my aim is not to be literal with Nerthus or to simply transfer her wagon riding trip mentioned by Tacitus in the first century to Anglo-Saxon England in the sixth and then to my own worship today. My aim is more to gain an understanding of the goddess Hrethe in AS England, and if Nerthus is a link in her evolution, then it gives me a better understanding for how she may have been perceived by them – after all, her name isn’t very revealing as to her character.

Yes, but the problem with that is you'd be waiting a long time for the rabbit - well into the Norman period. It's generally accepted that there were no rabbits in England during the anglo-saxon period. There's a rabbit thread on here somewhere.

You should substitute hare for rabbit while you're waiting for the Normans to arrive with their conies.

I hadn't thought of that (and thanks for the rabbit thread link btw), but that could strengthen the argument that the whole easter bunny thing didn't kick in until sometime after the norman invasion and had no bearing on AS Paganism (although I think I recall mention of Easter Hares !)

The other reason why I mention the hare is not as some sort of fertility symbol, but as a seasonal marker as in "look at the hares going at it. It'll be easter soon." A thousand years later we've got an easter bunny that delivers chocolate eggs with a bag of smarties inside them. Those things are more secular than they are pagan.

I hadn't thought of this either, but only because traditionally the date of easter each year was given to the flock on the 6th January, no doubt due to the variable calculations involved. And of course, where pagans are concerned, secularity is difficult to define.

Quote from: dacecain on March 11, 2012, 04:53:21 PM

a tasty rabbit would have been a relief from all the fish!

Could the Easter bunny have anything to do with March hares?

Hello Horsa,

I would have to say no, only because I do believe that the only reason Easter managed to retain its pagan name was due to its full Christianisation. Many pagans today do imagine a spring-like fertility hidden within the symbolism of Easter, but the problem from the Heathen perspective is that Bede clearly states that the Anglo-Saxons only had two seasons; winter and summer. Any such fertility symbolism would be better suited to the previous month, celebrating the end of winter and the awakening of the earth. I’m sticking with my rabbit omelette LOL

This rings bells for me of the frequent discussion about Yule. What then becomes interesting is when did the term Christmas take over from Yule and how did Easter keep it's pagan title rather than being converted to some form of "Pascha".

I use the same reasoning for yule as I do for Easter (which should worry all LOL). Yule is stated by Bede as being the midwinter solstice (or in his words something about the sun turning back). He also mentions Mothers’ Night, which he sets as the evening of the 24th December and the beginning of the year. Some people join the two, but I don’t see the link as clearly if only because by Bede’s time the solstice would be somewhere between the 19th and 22nd December, but not as late as the 24th/25th. I would put Mothers’ Night as occurring on the first full moon after the event. (I’m sure it is only a huge coincidence that according to NASA’s moon phase calculator a full moon occurred on the 24th December 725; the year in which Bede wrote his work: On the reckoning of Time!) For me, the Yule period simply became overshadowed by the festival within it: Christ Mass. As to the festival that signified yule, I believe that survived too, and was simply moved to the date where it still retained its pagan significance: 31st December – probably the biggest non-Christian festival there is - and helped by the fact that if mothers' night was already fixed to the full moon after yule then it was always a 'movable' celebration.

With Yule too though, like the bunnies at Easter, we see a pagan desire to ‘reclaim’ that which Christianity has taken, and many will speak of the 12 days of Yule, yet simple research will reveal that the 12 days of Christmas is a Christian creation, set in AD 567, at the second council of Tours, in an attempt to bridge the gap between the birth of Jesus on the 25th December in the west and the baptism (and birth) of Jesus on the 6th January in the east.

Again, apologies if I’ve rambled and thank you for the welcome, Wulfric

Best wishes,
Ashley

Hello All,

This is my first post so please be gentle 

In Green’s Language and History in the early Germanic world, he discusses different aspects that may explain the Easter/paschal anomaly:

One is the Edict of Toleration, before which saw Christian translators trying to stay clear of heavily pagan-related words within their own vocab; one is obviously the need to borrow words to explain the concept; Rolling on from that is the later use of terms which had pagan meanings but could be appropriated, or expanded, by Christianity to explain the new meanings making them more accessible to the newly converted; one is the lateness of the conversion of England in relation to the Christian vocabulary; and a final thing may have been the new approach in England of converting from the top down.

The celebration of the Pagan Goddess, the name of which is possibly related to the dawn, during a time that is probably related to the Spring, or more likely the beginning of Summer (or even both:  the dawning of the summer!), most likely transferred well to the idea of the resurrection, rebirth, etc. Despite the use of the pagan term, the festival itself does appear to have been fully Christianised making any name change moot; although such things as the Easter bunny and Easter eggs would seem to be Spring-related, they easily mesh with the end of fasting for lent (everyone ate their eggs on pancake day and a tasty rabbit would have been a relief from all the fish!)

Of course, there may not be an Easter anomaly, there are countries that use terms different to both Easter and Paschal, suggesting that they too may have had relatable words within their vocabularies already that could be appropriated. Maybe the anomaly only looks like one because of the spread of the English!

Apologies if none of that makes sense - but it did in my head

Best wishes,
Ashley