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Anglo Saxon musical instruments

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Author Topic: Anglo Saxon musical instruments  (Read 28588 times)

Horsa

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #30 on: September 07, 2011, 04:13:07 PM »
The AS hearpe tuned to the minor pentatonic scale gives 15  two-note chords


Yes, you are right. I had a play on the guitar with the pentatonic scale. I could do a wonky 8 bar blues chord progression.
Hƿílum ƿord be ƿorde, hƿílum andgit of andgiete.

lawrence

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #31 on: September 08, 2011, 09:14:00 PM »
I suppose it depends on what you understand by "harmony".  Certainly in the late 12th century Leonin was composing two part organa and Perotin was composing organa in four parts.  (I wouldn't normally think of the 12th century as "late" mediaeval.)

Cheers,

Lawrence

Horsa

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #32 on: September 12, 2011, 06:27:43 PM »
Brilliant! Thanks Lawrence. I'd never heard of Perotin and Leonin.
I've been listening to them on Youtube. I like the way some of the songs occasionally switch to plainsong. This stuff couldn't have jumped fully formed from Perotin's or Leonin's quills, so they must have been experimenting for years before these guys.
Hƿílum ƿord be ƿorde, hƿílum andgit of andgiete.

peter horn

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #33 on: December 22, 2013, 12:56:52 PM »
I should think that the earliest musical instrument that combined notes, and therefore produced harmonies, would be the pipe organ. This was invented by the Greeks & used by the Romans and found its way eventually into the Church.
In Frank Stanford's article, in an early WW, on musical instruments of the AS, he mentions an organ used at the end of the AS period. But I have been unable to find any independent mention of this so far.
Peter


I dont know how I missed "the Pipe Organ & Player Piano"  by Oliver C Faust 1905
on line, fascinating amount of detail, but it did not play harmonies.
"The art of organ building was known in England early 8th cent. Aldhelm died 709,
tells how they decorated the pipes with gilding
In 9th c English builders construced organ with copper pipes"
Monster organ built 10th c at Winchester cathedral.
Ic ∂ær ær wæs
Ic ∂æt ær dyde

peter

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #34 on: January 23, 2014, 03:08:33 PM »
Not quite on the same note, but the Winchester Cantatorium from the 11th Cent. now in the Bodleian Library (was MS Bodley 775?). might be of interest to A/S music fans? I think it was originally from the Old Minster, Winchester; a sort of Church sheet-music for Easter plays (I think).

lawrence

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #35 on: January 24, 2014, 11:07:33 AM »
Horsa - the Magnus Liber which is the main source of music of the Notre Dame school (Leonin  Perotin) is now available in facsimile here:

http://imslp.org/wiki/Magnus_Liber_Organi_%28Various%29

Cheers,

Lawrence

Penda

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #36 on: March 09, 2015, 09:22:26 PM »
Hello,
I found this on YouTube - https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=b3hzR939uB8 , it is an Old Frisian song about Thunor (or Thor), this is probably similiar to AS music. I saw on this thread (from a few years ago) about harmonies being seen as bad (or something like that) and I know up until the 15th Century (?) a chord was banned by the church as they thought it would conjure up a demon of hell
Anyway that is my insight
Æðelstān

Blackdragon

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #37 on: March 10, 2015, 11:29:29 AM »
I was just wondering about Anglo Saxon handbells: I thought I had seen an illustration of two men playing them once, and on checking I find that they were on the Bayeux Tapestry in the scene of Edward Confessors funeral. Would they have made a harmony if played together? They would not need two pairs if they were only being used to signal it was time for lunch oir prayers.

There was a reconstruction of 1000 year old monks handbells a while ago. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-24019210

peter horn

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #38 on: March 10, 2015, 12:25:35 PM »
The AS hearpe tuned to the minor pentatonic scale gives 15  two-note chords
ie: 1 perfect octave
    3 major 2nd
    2 minor 3rd
    1 maj 3rd
    3 perfect 4th
    3 perf 5th
    1 maj 2nd
    1 min 7th

there are thus 15  two note chords - some more pleasing to the modern ear than others.

then there are the 3 note chords   I use three of these, and find only one 4 note chord useful
Peter


since posting this I now appear on YouTube playing the hearpe
the best way to see this is to google 'peter horn harp'
Peter
Ic ∂ær ær wæs
Ic ∂æt ær dyde

RussJenkins

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #39 on: February 02, 2020, 04:39:22 PM »
I can't find the article mentioned above about AS harps. Can someone point me at it ?
I made myself a 7 string harp a couple of years ago, from scrap wood, ukulele strings and zither tuning pins. It's playable and I really enjoy it but it doesn't look authentic in any way.
It's time now to make another 6 strings and nicer wood and correcting some of the mistakes I made in the first one.
I'm most worried about making the tuning pegs as I don't think I should use zither pins again. Do I have to make my own wooden pegs in conical bores ? Sounds difficult.
I'm not a luthier, I'm a putter-up of wonky shelves. This will be challenging for me.

Eanflaed

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #40 on: February 02, 2020, 10:21:51 PM »
The next two issues of Withowinde will be right up your street Russ, methinks!  ;)  Don’t want to give too much away....!

peter horn

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2020, 10:01:21 PM »
I can't find the article mentioned above about AS harps. Can someone point me at it ?
I made myself a 7 string harp a couple of years ago, from scrap wood, ukulele strings and zither tuning pins. It's playable and I really enjoy it but it doesn't look authentic in any way.
It's time now to make another 6 strings and nicer wood and correcting some of the mistakes I made in the first one.
I'm most worried about making the tuning pegs as I don't think I should use zither pins again. Do I have to make my own wooden pegs in conical bores ? Sounds difficult.
I'm not a luthier, I'm a putter-up of wonky shelves. This will be challenging for me.
Hi
The sound of the Sutton Hoo Harp -article
For main website click on crown at top of this page
then click on search button
regards
Peter H
Ic ∂ær ær wæs
Ic ∂æt ær dyde

RussJenkins

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #42 on: February 07, 2020, 07:33:01 PM »
Thanks Peter, I found it.

Really interesting, my lyre isn't tuned pentatonic, it's tuned  F G A B C D E , but then it is 7 strings which I believe is not
very authentic.

peter horn

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Re: Anglo Saxon musical instruments
« Reply #43 on: February 08, 2020, 12:52:16 PM »
Thanks Peter, I found it.

Really interesting, my lyre isn't tuned pentatonic, it's tuned  F G A B C D E , but then it is 7 strings which I believe is not
very authentic.


iy seems very likely, though of course it cannot be proved, that the AS Lyre was tuned to
a pentatonic scale. early english folk songs are based on a pentatonic scale and these take us back
to the late AS period.
Peter H
Ic ∂ær ær wæs
Ic ∂æt ær dyde