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Author Topic: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande  (Read 14511 times)

Bowerthane

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #15 on: December 15, 2016, 02:07:35 PM »
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[E]xcept I do not understand why “him of” is not “of him”
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Right... well I’ve checked again David and “the Queen was in a furious passion, and went stamping about, and shouting ‘Off with his head!’ or ‘Off with her head!’ about once in a minute.” is definitely séo Cwén ágrymetode hetelíce and stóp hider and þider and hríemde “Ásléa him of þæt héafod!” oþþe “Ásléa hire of þæt héafod!” néah ǽlce minute.

Those are the fourth and fifth instances of ten times that an expression like them occurs in the whole text.

The first occasion is during the Mad Hatter’s Tea Party: “‘He’s murdering the time! Off with his head!”’ which becomes “Hé þone tíman forspilþ! Ásléa him of þæt héafod!” ( Professor Baker never dots Cs or Gs)

The second is: “The Queen turned crimson with fury, and, after glaring at her for a moment like a wild beast, screamed ‘Off with her head! Off – ’” which is Ðǽre Cwéne andwlita aréoded for ierre; and æfter héo lytel faec on híe wráþe starode swá swá wilddéor, héo ongan hríeman “Ásléa hire of þæt héafod! Ásléa hire –”

The third: “‘I see!’ said the Queen, who had meanwhile been examining the roses. ‘Off with their heads!’” which is, perhaps strangely Séo Cwén, þe þenden þá rósan sceawende wæs, cwæþ, “Ic þæt nú ongiete.  Ásléa him of þá héafdu!”

The sixth is: “The Queen had only one way of settling all difficulties, great or small. ‘Off with his head!’ she said, without even looking round.” Which becomes Séo Cwén gesémde ealla saca, ǽgþer ge þá máran ge þá lǽssan, on ánre wísan. “Ásléa him of þæt héafod!” cwæþ héo, ná furþum underbæc lóciende.”

The seventh and eighth are: “All the time they were playing the Queen never left off quarrelling with the other players, and shouting ‘Off with his head!’ or ‘Off with her head!’” which are Mid þám þe híe plegdon, séo Cwén nǽfre ne geswác þám óþrum plegerum to cídanne and “Ásléa him of þæt héafod!” oþþe “Ásléa hire of þæt héafod!” to hríemanne.

The ninth: “the Queen shrieked out. ‘Behead that Dormouse! Turn that Dormouse out of court! Suppress him! Pinch him! Off with his whiskers!’” which becomes séo Cwén hríemde, “Behéafda þá Sisemús! Ádrǽf þá Sisemús of þǽre dómstówe! Forþryce híe!  Tweng híe! Ásléa hire of þá wangbeardas!”

Lastly: “‘I won’t!’ said Alice./ “‘Off with her head!’ the Queen shouted at the top of her voice. Nobody moved.” which becomes “Ic nylle!” cwæþ Æþelgýþ./ “Ásléa hire of þæt héafod!” séo Cwén hríemde swá hlúde swá héo meahte. Nán man ne styrede.

So whatever Professor Baker is doing, he’s doing it consistently. How do you see a problem? 

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Now I know that “mūs” means “mouse” but what is this “sise”?
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Funny you should remark upon that. Years ago I looked up ‘dormouse’ for some other reason because I remember cocking an eyebrow at that ‘sise-’.  There seems to be nothing else like it in Old English to give the merest clue as to what they thought they were doing.  Only I was rather hoping that somebody like you would know what it was!

I notice it’s die Haselmaus in Modern German and die Hasel is just ‘hazel’ as in ‘hazelnut’.  So that’s not much help.

Suggestions, anyone?

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[P]robably means also getting the modern English version.
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I found a free online text in UK English at the Gutenberg Project, David.

Also, what about Swallows and Amazons as a kiddies’ book to translate?  It’s a ripping yarn and well written.  I discovered the Ransomebooks reading them as bedtime stories to my younger brother when I was in my early teens, and felt myself turning green wishing I’d known about them at his age.  When my elder sisters and I were into, I confess, Enid Blyton ( including the girls’ school books – so by some miracle my masculinity and literary taste survived unscathed).

You can keep ‘Amazons’ in the original because Book 1 of Orosius gives an account of the original Amazons about a sixth of the way before the end. 

Either that or fall back on The Secret Garden or The Borrowers, I say.



---oo ?????? oo---


Actually... something Blytonesque may not be such a bad idea.  You must remember one of the send-ups the Comic Strip did of the Famous Five stories?  I well remember the second, Five on Love Island I think it was, because Julian got stoned, Anne stuck up for the Nazis ( “Well at least they cared about racial purity!”) and Uncle Quentin turned out to be a screaming homosexual.  My sisters and I ached with laughter at them, and something about the discarded outboard motor discomposed my mother, but I don’t mean to be facetious ( for a change).  Seriously: something tongue-in-cheek from everybody’s childhood will maximise the potential readership ( “appeal to children of all ages” as we blurb-writers say) and maintain interest when the Old English grammar gets laborious.  The French had some success using Monty Python to teach Modern English to their students, in this manner.

Lay hands on the script for Five on Love Island and translate that, why not? 
Illustrated with screenshots-or-whatever from the broadcast version. 

Unless of course somebody knows a funnier send-up of a well-known children’s book?  There was a far-left version of Tintin in which he became a street-fighting Panzerkommunist, a sorta Andreas Baader in plus twos, that if memory serves got trouble from the copyright holders.  Then I came across a Paddington Joins the National Front once.  Only I think that got a bit close to the bone, what with him calling on Mr Gruber to check up whether he were Jewish.





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David

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #16 on: December 15, 2016, 02:47:48 PM »



My thinking was that “of” takes the dative case. “Him” is in the dative whereas “þæt hēafod” is not. So I took “Āslēa him of þæt hēafod” to mean “Cut the head off from him”.

Phyllis

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #17 on: December 15, 2016, 07:49:18 PM »
Sorry to have missed all the fun - I have been a little distracted elsewhere!

Now I really want the book too - one for the list, and we'll see what happens after Geol. It sounds brilliant Bowerthane :)

I am aware that I am beginning to get too old to really know what might appeal to people now. The parents where I work haven't read Enid Blyton as far as I can tell, so if we are assuming people would buy a children's story based on their own childhood reading, we may need to be a little more up-to-date.

Dick King-Smith perhaps? Or possibly Anne Fine? I hesitate to suggest Harry Potter...

I'm also thinking about copyright issues, just because I'm like that. The children's stories were cleared with the publisher. I guess if we ever got another story translated we would need to remember to do that too, unless it were a classic free of copyright :)




Phyllis

Eanflaed

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2016, 12:09:31 AM »
Definitely Dick King Smith! (See my earlier post on this thread  :))

Phyllis

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #19 on: December 17, 2016, 04:51:41 PM »
Definitely Dick King Smith! (See my earlier post on this thread  :))

Oops!  :-[
Phyllis

David

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2016, 04:35:27 PM »
 
I have been translating “Let’s go home, Little Bear” by Martin Waddel into Old English. Then I was worried by Phyllls’s comments on copyright so I rang the publisher. They were quite interested in Old English but were worried when I said that there was open access to ġegaderung. I’m not surprised that someone who sells books would not like their contents broadcast on the internet. I wonder how Phyllis got them to agree. However they said I could fill in their 2 page permission form and they would look at it in January and give me a reply a couple of months later. I don’t think I’ll bother. I’ll just finish it for my own satisfaction and not put it on ġegaderung.
 
I think that we should try old fairy tales which are out of copyright such as those from Hans Christian Andersen or the Brothers Grimm.  I was wondering about Se Fāga Pīpere Hamelines. I was thinking of the poem by Robert Browning which is not as grim as the brothers.  I would do a prose translation, not a poem. Is it too long for posting?
« Last Edit: December 20, 2016, 08:36:49 AM by David »

cynewulf

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #21 on: December 21, 2016, 12:49:32 AM »
How about a translation of the aphorism 'It is better to apologise than to ask permission' ?!

Bowerthane

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #22 on: December 22, 2016, 02:32:05 PM »
EEEEEEEEK!
Urgent editorial amendment!!!


My memory has confabulated.  Again.  There’s no such Comic Strip film as Five on Love Island.  It was Five
go Mad on Mescaline and Dick who got stoned.  It was Julian who dunked him to bring him round, and Five go
Mad in Dorset where Uncle Quentin turned out to be a screaming homosexual.

Robbie Coltrane was in drag, Timmy was in George’s tent getting licky and
they all washed up in the Kneecap Hill Rehab Clinic.


::)


So that’s that straightened out.


Only I wouldn’t want any ġesíþas to go, you know, experimenting over
the Yuletide break on the strength of my last post.

So just, just stick to lashings of ginger beer everybody and don’t go doing
anything that would make me feel... responsible.


Oh, and:




:-* ::) ;D :-* ;)

Heafe éow glade Ġeoltíd and
glésume Ġear and níwe!


;D ::) :P :-* ;D





( Hope your year was as jammy as mine!)







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« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 02:36:23 PM by Bowerthane »

cynewulf

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #23 on: December 22, 2016, 08:52:03 PM »
or even 'rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools'….

Phyllis

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #24 on: December 22, 2016, 09:32:43 PM »
Many proverbs etc on the "clerkofoxford" blog

http://aclerkofoxford.blogspot.co.uk/p/old-english-wisdom.html

Phyllis

Roseberry

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #25 on: February 26, 2017, 06:06:48 PM »
I came across this site whilst looking for an OE word for quaint with regards to another thread. It seems to be connected to Peter S. Baker, so I thought it might be of interest to some of our members.

www.oldenglishaerobics.net/

David

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Re: Æðelgyðe Ellendæda on Wundorlande
« Reply #26 on: February 26, 2017, 09:15:50 PM »
Thank you for the corrections, Roseberry. I do not think that he was mixing up the imperative with the indicative or subjunctive, rather just a spelling slip.


I would not recommend his book for learning old English.