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Author Topic: Oath of Eorl translation time  (Read 1736 times)

Phyllis

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Oath of Eorl translation time
« on: December 03, 2020, 08:30:01 PM »
Does anyone fancy working on a new translation with me?

I thought I'd have a go at the Oath of Eorl (from Tolkien) as he specifies that Eorl gave the oath on his own language ie pretty much in Old English. I was thinking of doing a line a week - or thereabouts. In fact it's only 2 sentences but there are lots and lots of clauses...

For background Eorl is the Founding Father of the Rohirrim, the Horse Lords on the plains more or less NW of Gondor. (Gondor/Mundberg is the city facing down the Evil Sauron, the eponymous creator of custom finger jewellery). So basically the good guys. Anyway, back in the olden days Eorl pretty mcuh saved the Lord of Gondor and was rewarded with the Land of Rohan. The two swore oaths of mutual aid.

So anyway - here's the first section, in Mod English and then my attempt in OE


Hear now all peoples who bow not to the Shadow in the East, by the gift of the Lord of the Mundburg we will come to dwell in the land that he names Calenardhon, and therefore I vow in my own name and on behalf of the Éothéod of the North that between us and the Great People of the West there shall be friendship for ever


Hwæt! Hieraþ nu eall folc þe ne bugaþ to þæm Sceaduwe on þæm easte, be giefe þære Mundburges Hlafordes cumaþ we oneardian on þæm lande þe he Calenardhon nemneþ and forþæm geswerie ic on minum selfum naman and for þære Northena Eoþeode þæt betweonan us and þissum Mærum Westena Leode biþ æfre freondscipe


Any suggestions much appreciated!

Phyllis

David

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2020, 02:26:51 PM »
Sorry, I have no suggestions. It all looks very good to me.

Locian

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #2 on: December 04, 2020, 05:04:44 PM »
It's sounds better in Old English.  I like it!
Þurh þone wudu Locian

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2020, 07:47:42 PM »
Good grief - no changes! I must be improving :)

OK, here's the next bit:

their enemies shall be our enemies, their need shall be our need, and whatsoever evil, or threat, or assault may come upon them we will aid them to the utmost end of our strength.

hiera feond beoð ure feond, hiera nyd bið ure nyd, and swa hwa swa yfel oþþre þrea oþþe onhryre him becumen swa fultumiaþ we him to þære gefyllednesse ure strengþo.
Phyllis

David

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2020, 09:45:58 PM »
Shouldn’t “swā hwā swā” be “swā hwæt swā”?

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #5 on: December 06, 2020, 02:38:25 PM »
Shouldn’t “swā hwā swā” be “swā hwæt swā”?

yes it should!
thank you :)

This just leaves the last sentence, which I admit gave me a bit more trouble.


This vow shall descend to my heirs, all such as may come after me in our new land, and let them keep it in faith unbroken, lest the Shadow fall upon them and they become accursed.

Þisne aþ geyrfweardaþ min mægþ, æghwa þe folgie me on urum niwum lande and sceal man hine gehealdan on unbrocenum getrywe ðý læs ðe fealleþ se Sceadu on him and hie weorþen awyrged.

Phyllis

David

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #6 on: December 07, 2020, 09:40:01 AM »
Let me first congratulate you on translating such a difficult passage so well. One particular problem was the collective mægþ where you start with the singular but then want to move to the plural for the people in the collective. I think that it starts where you use “man”, so I would have said “sċullon menn” instead of “sċeal man”. However, it was good that you looked at the meaning behind the words and did not just use “and lēt hine” for “and let them”. “Se sċeadu” should be “sēo sċeadu” and I would have used the accusative after the “on”. Finally “awyrged” should be “awyrgede”.

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #7 on: December 07, 2020, 11:22:11 AM »
Thanks David, that's really helpful and I agree with it all!

It was surprisingly awkward to translate, so I'm glad I wasn't too far off.

I completely forgot the Shadow was feminine (Sauron is definitely male in the book, so I kept thinking if it as "him" all the time!). That means, I think, in the first sentence it should be "Hieraþ nu eall folc þe ne bugaþ to þære Sceaduwe" and not "þæm Sceaduwe" that I had before?




Phyllis

David

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #8 on: December 07, 2020, 01:21:28 PM »
I’m disappointed that I failed to notice that þǣm sċēaduwe was wrong as it is easier to notice other people’s slips than your own.
I know that my original attempt at translating the final part would have been much worse than yours. I probably would not have reach your standard by the time I went public.

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #9 on: December 07, 2020, 01:32:19 PM »
Flattery will get you everywhere!

Anyway, I'm glad we got there together :)

Here is the final cut as I understand it:

Hwæt! Hieraþ nu eall folc þe ne bugaþ to þære Sceaduwe on þæm easte, be giefe þære Mundburges Hlafordes cumaþ we oneardian on þæm lande þe he Calenardhon nemneþ and forþæm geswerie ic on minum selfum naman and for þære Northena Eoþeode þæt betweonan us and þissum Mærum Westena Leode biþ æfre freondscipe: hiera feond beoð ure feond, hiera nyd bið ure nyd, and swa hwæt swa yfel oþþre þrea oþþe onhryre him becumen swa fultumiaþ we him to þære gefyllednesse ure strengþo.
Þisne aþ geyrfweardaþ min mægþ, æghwa þe folgie me on urum niwum lande and scylon menn hine gehealdan on unbrocenum getrywe ðý læs ðe fealleþ seo Sceadu on hie and hie weorþen awyrgede.


Thanks again to David :)
Phyllis

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #10 on: December 08, 2020, 09:38:04 AM »
Me again!

I have had a go at adding macrons, and also spotted a typo in the previous "final version". So here it is again along with a link to me trying to read it out loud...

As ever, any corrections appreciated!

Hwæt! Hīeraþ nu eall folc þe ne būgaþ to þǣre Sceaduwe on þǣm eāste, be giefe þǣre Mundburges Hlāfordes cumaþ we oneardian on þǣm lande þe he Calenardhon nemneþ and forþæm geswerie ic on mīnum selfum naman and for þǣre Northena Eoþeōde þæt betweonan ūs and þissum Mǣrum Westena Leōde biþ ǣfre freōndscipe: hiera feōnd beoð ūre feōnd, hiera nȳd bið ūre nȳd, and swā hwæt swā yfel oþþe þreā oþþe onhryre him becumen swā fultumiaþ wē him to þǣre gefyllednesse ūre strengþo.
Þisne āþ geyrfweardaþ mīn mǣgþ, ǣghwa þe folgie mē on ūrum nīwum lande and sculon menn hine gehealdan on unbrocenum getrȳwe ðý læs ðe fealleþ seo Sceadu on hie and hie weorþen awyrgede.

Vocaroo recording here: https://voca.ro/13tN4kl5Qmfr


Phyllis

Phyllis

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Re: Oath of Eorl translation time
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2020, 03:49:27 PM »
Well, some more macron erros spotted and a couple of other edits, so here we go again!


Hwæt! Hīeraþ nū eall folc þe ne būgaþ to þǣre Sceaduwe on þǣm eāste, be giefe þǣre Mundbyrig Hlāfordes cumaþ wē oneardian on þǣm lande þe hē Calenardhon nemneþ and forþæm geswerie ic on mīnum selfum naman and for þǣre Northena Ēoþēode þæt betwēonan ūs and þissum Mǣrum Westena Lēode biþ ǣfre frēondscipe: hiera fēond bēoð ūre fēond, hiera nȳd bið ūre nȳd, and swā hwæt swā yfel oþþe þreā oþþe onhryre him becumen swā fultumiaþ wē him tō þǣre gefyllednesse ūre strengþo.

Þisne āþ geyrfweardaþ mīn mǣgþ, ǣghwa þe folgie mē on ūrum nīwum lande and sculon menn hine gehealdan on unbrocenum getrȳwe ðȳ læs ðe fealleþ seō Sceadu on hīe and hīe weorþen awyrgede.
Phyllis