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Author Topic: AS heathenism  (Read 13232 times)

Chris

  • Guest
AS heathenism
« on: July 03, 2010, 08:06:30 AM »
This may be of interest to Ubique and some others:
http://englishheathenism.homestead.com/introduction.html

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2010, 09:40:18 AM »
Thanks Chris
I Have come across this site many times and its good to see such a massive amount of information on Heathenry that is not Norse based.I still find it strange that the majority of Heathens in England still follow a Norse style to there practices and rituals when we have just enough evidence to practice as our ancestors would have.

Chris

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2010, 02:35:47 PM »
It's a similar syndrome with our culture and language.  People seem to accept that our culture started elsewhere; e.g. "England began with the Norman Conquest." (Jack Straw, then Foreign Secretary); religion came with the Christian monks and priests; our monarchs are counted from the Bastard (i.e. numerically from the Norman lineage). History is written by the victor I guess. 

We have such a rich AS legacy.  It seems a shame not to revel in it.

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2010, 02:48:19 PM »
Well said mate .I consider myself a normal english bloke and a small amount of education on our people from an early age gave me a sense of national/cultural pride.So with abit of non-biased education there is a very good chance every englishman/women will take pride in our ancestors and our origins as we as a people ( well most) have always been proud of history and culture.

Chris

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2010, 10:13:06 PM »
Methinks AS Heathenism should be a sticky thread along with AS Christianity; two sides to the AS spiritual coin.

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #5 on: July 09, 2010, 01:38:04 PM »
sounds fair to me :)

Tim

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2010, 10:50:40 AM »
I've only just joined the Gegaderung so i hope this posting isn't too late to be of interest.  But i agree that this topic merits ongoing discussion.  There are several issues i think, each of which could give rise to a thread on its own.  AS heathenism is difficult to re-construct - much useful material is in the medical literature (charms and suchlike) but i doubt whether it was a coherent set of beliefs. I also feel that cultural beliefs were more important to the AS than religion, altho the two tended to merge; concepts such as "wyrd", and ethics deriving from a warrior code such as the vengeance imperative.  Did the AS adapt Christianity so it was a better fit with these beliefs?  Secular poetry always seems to me to have Christian elements "bolted on" as a form of PR exercise, to mollify powerful churchmen and devout kings.  Even those Christian elements tend to be Old Testament, dwelling on warrior-like figures taking revenge, and unequivocally Christian poems such as The Dream of the Rood focus on the lord/retainer aspect. So definitely 2 sides of the coin, as Chris says.

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2010, 07:50:01 PM »
Good post tim and welcome

I think your right about the AS looking at Heathenism as more of a folkway than a religion.Im sure the AS belived in the gods probably not in the way we understand it today.My feelings are our ancestors saw them more as part of the landscape or great heros and ancestors.

As for Wyrd I dont think us modern heathens will have a full understanding of it as many of our ancestors would have seen and felt Wyrd in there daily lives.

As for the conversion I wish I knew the gory details behind it but part of thinks they just embraced it at the upper and maybe middle levels something similiar to beatlle mania or when the spice girls tipped up on top of the pops.

The thing that sparks my intrest at the moment is how the AS saw the gods as opposed to the Norse and continental heathens?.Did they see Woden as an icy figure stalking the world collecting up his army of the dead to fight the Ragnarok or was he a more complicated but abit more open and intrested in the dealings of the people in midgard.The same applies to the rest of the pantheon and wights ect?.Did the AS pick up elements of Celtic paganism off the Britons that the came into contact with.

The mind boggels hey.





Karen Carlson

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2010, 10:11:01 PM »
Have you read The Lost Gods of England by Branston?  He lays out the limits of what we know about the A-S view of the gods, and I think takes a reasonable approach to filling in the copious gaps.  The picture he paints of Woden, say, is rather different from Snorri's Odin.

Karen

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2010, 02:06:36 PM »
Yep read it a year or so ago fantastic book.If only Bde or somebody similiar could have written the English sagas hey :(

peter

  • gesith
  • **
  • Posts: 96
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #10 on: August 31, 2010, 10:45:44 AM »
Please don't forget that early Anglo-Saxons also found Christian Palagianism (Welsh/British?) more to their taste than the Roman version,
so a christian heresy also played a part in early AS religious culture.

John Nicholas Cross

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2010, 12:46:35 PM »
Are there any contemporary (or near) records to confirm this, as Pelagianism was initially before the Anglo-Saxon period?   John.

ubique

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2010, 06:24:36 PM »
Are there any contemporary (or near) records to confirm this, as Pelagianism was initially before the Anglo-Saxon period?   John.

My understanding of this was in the west and north of england Celtic christianity may have been adopted before or around the same time as Augustine was bringing roman christianity to to the south and west.

Ill have a butchers for some records but it was mentioned in book Anglo Saxon landscape Hwicce

Bowerthane

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #13 on: August 31, 2010, 09:36:27 PM »
Bede mentions Pelagius at least twice.  Once unfavourably in the Ecclesiastical History and once in passing in his On the Apocalypse.


John Nicholas Cross

  • Guest
Re: AS heathenism
« Reply #14 on: August 31, 2010, 10:39:49 PM »
Bede may indeed mention Pelagianism but I think it is in an historical and retrospective manner.  I think as an active heresy, it was over long before Bede was even born.   John.