Gegaderung

Gegaderung => Old English Language => Topic started by: Bowerthane on May 27, 2014, 03:24:47 PM

Title: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Bowerthane on May 27, 2014, 03:24:47 PM

Would anyone like to guess what this is?


Ǽġhwá heafst engel, helm se ús weardaþ.  Wé ne cnáwen wæstm þæt híe ġetácnaþ.  án  dæġ, eald wer. Æfterra dæġ, lýtle mǽden. 
Ac ne lǽten híwas ne beswiċen þé.  Híe mæġe swá grimm swá æniġ draca.  Ġíet hér híe ne sindon éower beadan
ġefeohtan, ac of éower heortan hwisprian. 
Reccan þæt hit is ús.  Ǽlċ ús se lá ríċe þǽm
woruldas þá wé scieppaþ.





By all means critique the grammar.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Linden on May 27, 2014, 09:42:52 PM

Would anyone like to guess what this is?



Ǽġhwá heafst engel, helm se ús weardaþ.  Wé ne cnáwen wæstm þæt híe ġetácnaþ.  án dæġ, eald wer. Æfterra dæġ, lýtle mǽden. 
Ac ne lǽten híwas ne beswiċen þé.  Híe mæġe swá grimm swá æniġ draca.  Ġíet hér híe ne sindon éower beadan
ġefeohtan, ac of éower heortan hwisprian. 
Reccan þæt hit is ús.  Ǽlċ ús se lá ríċe þǽm
woruldas þá wé scieppaþ.


You watch some strange films Bowerthane
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sucker_Punch_(film)
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: David on May 28, 2014, 09:28:13 AM

I am a simple soul and like straightforward talking.

I read what Bowerthane wrote and wondered what he is going on about. My best guess was religion.

I read Linden's reply and became even more confused.

I went onto Linden's link and decided I must be going completely mad.

Can someone explain it all to me in very simple language?
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Linden on May 28, 2014, 10:45:52 AM

I am a simple soul and like straightforward talking.

I read what Bowerthane wrote and wondered what he is going on about. My best guess was religion.

I read Linden's reply and became even more confused.

I went onto Linden's link and decided I must be going completely mad.

Can someone explain it all to me in very simple language?

As far as I can tell, it is an automated translation into OE vocabulary of a bit about guardian angels from a strange film called 'Sucker Punch'.  Of course - I could be wrong........................................ but this is the bit (spoken by 'Sweet Pea'?) that I think is being translated.
Everyone has an Angel. A Guardian who watches over us. We can't know what form they'll take, one day old man, next day little girl, but don't let appearances fool you. They can be as fierce as any dragon. Yet they're not here to fight our battles, but to whisper from our hearts. Reminding that it's us. Its every one of us who holds power over the world we create.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: David on May 28, 2014, 11:21:21 AM

Thank you Linden.

I basically agree with your translation.

The rest is outside my experience.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Linden on May 28, 2014, 11:49:35 AM

Thank you Linden.

I basically agree with your translation.

The rest is outside my experience.

I would not call it a translation and it is certainly not my translation. 
The bit of purple italic prose in my previous post was a direct quote from the film - just my best guess as to what was intended.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Bowerthane on June 14, 2014, 02:30:46 PM
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an automated translation ... would not call it a translation
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I’d rather posters showed me the mistakes than told me, Linden.  Seeing it with fresh eyes here on the Gegaderung, I thought you meant I’d goofed by not realising that anything ending in -hwá can only be an interrogative pronoun in Old English.  But now I get my finger out to check properly, in my Sweet’s Anglo-Saxon Primer not contradicted in my Old English Grammar by Joseph and Elizabeth Wright, the Pronouns section of the former says here under Indefinite, “The interrogatives hwá, hwelċ, &c, are used also in the sense ‘any(one)’, any(thing)’.”  Which also explains what I thought I was doing by ‘analysing’, as Steven Pinker puts it, ǽġhwá as a singular ( defined as “each one, every one” by my The Student’s Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon by Henry Sweet, too) and therefore declining habban in the singular.

But I don’t pretend to be infallible and I’d be glad to learn the normative way of saying “Everyone verbs” if I’ve succeeded only in blinding myself.  I do remember giving up in exasperation when poring through my many and various samples of original Old English, failing to find an exemplar, and falling back on syntactic dead-reckoning in just this manner.

There was certinaly nothing automated about my translation.  Its faults will be those of limited time and patience, bearing in mind I have a living I’m supposed to be earning.

By the way, my machine won’t let me put macrons over æ and y, so I plump for acute accents here only for consistency’s sake.


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The moral right of the author to be identified as a crude racial stereotype of a Fenlander has been asserted.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Linden on June 14, 2014, 06:09:17 PM
_______________________________________________
an automated translation ... would not call it a translation
_______________________________________________


I’d rather posters showed me the mistakes than told me, Linden.  Seeing it with fresh eyes here on the Gegaderung, I thought you meant I’d goofed by not realising that anything ending in -hwá can only be an interrogative pronoun in Old English.  But now I get my finger out to check properly, in my Sweet’s Anglo-Saxon Primer not contradicted in my Old English Grammar by Joseph and Elizabeth Wright, the Pronouns section of the former says here under Indefinite, “The interrogatives hwá, hwelċ, &c, are used also in the sense ‘any(one)’, any(thing)’.”  Which also explains what I thought I was doing by ‘analysing’, as Steven Pinker puts it, ǽġhwá as a singular ( defined as “each one, every one” by my The Student’s Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon by Henry Sweet, too) and therefore declining habban in the singular.

But I don’t pretend to be infallible and I’d be glad to learn the normative way of saying “Everyone verbs” if I’ve succeeded only in blinding myself.  I do remember giving up in exasperation when poring through my many and various samples of original Old English, failing to find an exemplar, and falling back on syntactic dead-reckoning in just this manner.

There was certinaly nothing automated about my translation.  Its faults will be those of limited time and patience, bearing in mind I have a living I’m supposed to be earning.

By the way, my machine won’t let me put macrons over æ and y, so I plump for acute accents here only for consistency’s sake.


__________________________________________________________________________________________
The moral right of the author to be identified as a crude racial stereotype of a Fenlander has been asserted.

My sincere apologies for assuming that you had used an automatic translator.  I'm afraid that I too have limited time and cannot comment further on this text.
Title: Re: Just a linguistic tease...
Post by: Bowerthane on June 16, 2014, 02:37:21 AM
No problem Linden. I have goofed.  I got so fixated on the formal singular of  ‘any(one)’ I analysed it as ‘any (one of you)’ and put the verb in the second person which, to say the least, seems pointlessly elaborate. 

Unless there’s an exemplar to the contrary, out there..?