Gegaderung

Gegaderung => Old English Language => Topic started by: Jayson on November 02, 2010, 04:37:42 PM

Title: Pronouncing 's' -- difference from German
Post by: Jayson on November 02, 2010, 04:37:42 PM

I learned German up to 'O' level (which was easy as we had a brilliant teacher) but it has left me with problems pronouncing 's' in A-S.   I can't break myself of pronouncing it 'sh' before a consonent and 'z' before a vowel.   Does anyone know when the change took place?

BTW, I am still a novice in learning A-S!

Title: Re: Pronouncing 's' -- difference from German
Post by: Karen Carlson on November 06, 2010, 11:29:44 PM

I don't know the answer to your question.  But you'll know you've made real progress in Old English when you try to read German out loud and find yourself pronouncing the ge- prefix of the participles as ye- like in OE. ;)

Karen

Title: Re: Pronouncing 's' -- difference from German
Post by: Iohannes on November 08, 2010, 01:35:07 PM

Leof Jayson

To my knowledge, the pronunciations of -s- that you mention are an innovation of Modern German. Up to a certain point, this letter must have been pronounced similarly in both languages, then - I don't know exactly when, but most probably in the Middle High German period, and in the south and centre of Germany only - the evolution towards the present sounds took place. On the contrary, it didn't occur in Low Saxon (Plattdeutsch) and it occurred only partially in Dutch.

Examples

OE/ModEng: sand (with /s/) Vs. German: Sand / Dutch: zand (with /z/)

ModEng: swallow (with  /s/) / Dutch: zwaluw (with /z/) Vs. German: Schwalbe (with /sh/).

All the best

Title: Re: Pronouncing 's' -- difference from German
Post by: Horsa on March 10, 2011, 09:51:52 PM

I've always pronounced the Old English initial s as /s/

sweord

and medial s as /z/

risan

according to the standard pronunciation guide.

However, I do remember reading somewhere that there may have been more voicing going on. In Ancrene wisse or Ancrene riwle, which I believe is from Wesses, the old English frofre becomes vrovre. and in modern times, in the west country s is pronounced /z/

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Country_dialects (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Country_dialects)

Title: Re: Pronouncing 's' -- difference from German
Post by: Graegwulf on March 10, 2011, 10:48:48 PM

The s - sh and s-z mutations are associated with Verner's Law, which describes the changes from older West Germanic to High German.  My understanding is that the shift begins towards the later part of the Old English period.  I'll ask somebody on the Germanic List, and on the Lowlands List.

Knee-deep in academics those sites.  I'll probably start a fight though.

Paul