Welcome to the discussion forum of Ða Engliscan Gesiðas for all matters relating to the history, language and culture of Anglo-Saxon England. I hope it will provide a useful source of information, stimulate research, and be of real help. Ða Engliscan Gesiðas (The English Companions) maintains a strictly neutral line on all modern and current political and religious matters and it does not follow any particular interpretation of history. Transgression of this Rule will not be tolerated. Any posts which are perceived as breaking this Rule will be deleted with immediate effect without explanation.

Author Topic: Just a linguistic tease...  (Read 7989 times)

Bowerthane

  • Guest
Just a linguistic tease...
« on: May 27, 2014, 03:24:47 PM »

Would anyone like to guess what this is?


Ǽġhwá heafst engel, helm se ús weardaþ.  Wé ne cnáwen wæstm þæt híe ġetácnaþ.  án  dæġ, eald wer. Æfterra dæġ, lýtle mǽden. 
Ac ne lǽten híwas ne beswiċen þé.  Híe mæġe swá grimm swá æniġ draca.  Ġíet hér híe ne sindon éower beadan
ġefeohtan, ac of éower heortan hwisprian. 
Reccan þæt hit is ús.  Ǽlċ ús se lá ríċe þǽm
woruldas þá wé scieppaþ.





By all means critique the grammar.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 03:34:29 PM by Bowerthane »

Linden

  • Hlaford
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
  • Essex scirgerefa
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #1 on: May 27, 2014, 09:42:52 PM »

Would anyone like to guess what this is?



Ǽġhwá heafst engel, helm se ús weardaþ.  Wé ne cnáwen wæstm þæt híe ġetácnaþ.  án dæġ, eald wer. Æfterra dæġ, lýtle mǽden. 
Ac ne lǽten híwas ne beswiċen þé.  Híe mæġe swá grimm swá æniġ draca.  Ġíet hér híe ne sindon éower beadan
ġefeohtan, ac of éower heortan hwisprian. 
Reccan þæt hit is ús.  Ǽlċ ús se lá ríċe þǽm
woruldas þá wé scieppaþ.


You watch some strange films Bowerthane
http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Sucker_Punch_(film)
« Last Edit: May 27, 2014, 10:06:14 PM by Linden »
Cræft biþ betere ðonne æhta

David

  • Ealdormann
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2014, 09:28:13 AM »

I am a simple soul and like straightforward talking.

I read what Bowerthane wrote and wondered what he is going on about. My best guess was religion.

I read Linden's reply and became even more confused.

I went onto Linden's link and decided I must be going completely mad.

Can someone explain it all to me in very simple language?

Linden

  • Hlaford
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
  • Essex scirgerefa
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2014, 10:45:52 AM »

I am a simple soul and like straightforward talking.

I read what Bowerthane wrote and wondered what he is going on about. My best guess was religion.

I read Linden's reply and became even more confused.

I went onto Linden's link and decided I must be going completely mad.

Can someone explain it all to me in very simple language?

As far as I can tell, it is an automated translation into OE vocabulary of a bit about guardian angels from a strange film called 'Sucker Punch'.  Of course - I could be wrong........................................ but this is the bit (spoken by 'Sweet Pea'?) that I think is being translated.
Everyone has an Angel. A Guardian who watches over us. We can't know what form they'll take, one day old man, next day little girl, but don't let appearances fool you. They can be as fierce as any dragon. Yet they're not here to fight our battles, but to whisper from our hearts. Reminding that it's us. Its every one of us who holds power over the world we create.
« Last Edit: May 28, 2014, 10:51:09 AM by Linden »
Cræft biþ betere ðonne æhta

David

  • Ealdormann
  • *****
  • Posts: 607
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2014, 11:21:21 AM »

Thank you Linden.

I basically agree with your translation.

The rest is outside my experience.

Linden

  • Hlaford
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
  • Essex scirgerefa
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2014, 11:49:35 AM »

Thank you Linden.

I basically agree with your translation.

The rest is outside my experience.

I would not call it a translation and it is certainly not my translation. 
The bit of purple italic prose in my previous post was a direct quote from the film - just my best guess as to what was intended.
Cræft biþ betere ðonne æhta

Bowerthane

  • Guest
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #6 on: June 14, 2014, 02:30:46 PM »
_______________________________________________
an automated translation ... would not call it a translation
_______________________________________________


I’d rather posters showed me the mistakes than told me, Linden.  Seeing it with fresh eyes here on the Gegaderung, I thought you meant I’d goofed by not realising that anything ending in -hwá can only be an interrogative pronoun in Old English.  But now I get my finger out to check properly, in my Sweet’s Anglo-Saxon Primer not contradicted in my Old English Grammar by Joseph and Elizabeth Wright, the Pronouns section of the former says here under Indefinite, “The interrogatives hwá, hwelċ, &c, are used also in the sense ‘any(one)’, any(thing)’.”  Which also explains what I thought I was doing by ‘analysing’, as Steven Pinker puts it, ǽġhwá as a singular ( defined as “each one, every one” by my The Student’s Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon by Henry Sweet, too) and therefore declining habban in the singular.

But I don’t pretend to be infallible and I’d be glad to learn the normative way of saying “Everyone verbs” if I’ve succeeded only in blinding myself.  I do remember giving up in exasperation when poring through my many and various samples of original Old English, failing to find an exemplar, and falling back on syntactic dead-reckoning in just this manner.

There was certinaly nothing automated about my translation.  Its faults will be those of limited time and patience, bearing in mind I have a living I’m supposed to be earning.

By the way, my machine won’t let me put macrons over æ and y, so I plump for acute accents here only for consistency’s sake.


__________________________________________________________________________________________
The moral right of the author to be identified as a crude racial stereotype of a Fenlander has been asserted.

Linden

  • Hlaford
  • ****
  • Posts: 391
  • Essex scirgerefa
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #7 on: June 14, 2014, 06:09:17 PM »
_______________________________________________
an automated translation ... would not call it a translation
_______________________________________________


I’d rather posters showed me the mistakes than told me, Linden.  Seeing it with fresh eyes here on the Gegaderung, I thought you meant I’d goofed by not realising that anything ending in -hwá can only be an interrogative pronoun in Old English.  But now I get my finger out to check properly, in my Sweet’s Anglo-Saxon Primer not contradicted in my Old English Grammar by Joseph and Elizabeth Wright, the Pronouns section of the former says here under Indefinite, “The interrogatives hwá, hwelċ, &c, are used also in the sense ‘any(one)’, any(thing)’.”  Which also explains what I thought I was doing by ‘analysing’, as Steven Pinker puts it, ǽġhwá as a singular ( defined as “each one, every one” by my The Student’s Dictionary of Anglo-Saxon by Henry Sweet, too) and therefore declining habban in the singular.

But I don’t pretend to be infallible and I’d be glad to learn the normative way of saying “Everyone verbs” if I’ve succeeded only in blinding myself.  I do remember giving up in exasperation when poring through my many and various samples of original Old English, failing to find an exemplar, and falling back on syntactic dead-reckoning in just this manner.

There was certinaly nothing automated about my translation.  Its faults will be those of limited time and patience, bearing in mind I have a living I’m supposed to be earning.

By the way, my machine won’t let me put macrons over æ and y, so I plump for acute accents here only for consistency’s sake.


__________________________________________________________________________________________
The moral right of the author to be identified as a crude racial stereotype of a Fenlander has been asserted.

My sincere apologies for assuming that you had used an automatic translator.  I'm afraid that I too have limited time and cannot comment further on this text.
Cræft biþ betere ðonne æhta

Bowerthane

  • Guest
Re: Just a linguistic tease...
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2014, 02:37:21 AM »
No problem Linden. I have goofed.  I got so fixated on the formal singular of  ‘any(one)’ I analysed it as ‘any (one of you)’ and put the verb in the second person which, to say the least, seems pointlessly elaborate. 

Unless there’s an exemplar to the contrary, out there..?