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Author Topic: Children's storytime  (Read 25403 times)

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #30 on: June 12, 2015, 04:32:58 PM »
Thanks again to one and all!

I will use igil for hedgehog and grind my teeth that I didn't find it in any of the places I looked. Which is of course why I am so grateful to you all.

I intend to remain brazenly to the side of the cræft debate and stick with folcflyga. I like it, and it works for my purposes of trying to make it sound New English enough for children (and parents) to follow.

However, David, can you just explain to my poor brain why I don't put the -e on the end of wyrtgeard and wægen? I thought I always did in the dative? And I am annoyed with myself that I missed it from niht because I did know that really! So yet again, thank you :)

I will bring you noisy light in due course ....


Phyllis

David

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #31 on: June 13, 2015, 03:17:56 PM »

Phyllis

You are right – you add an “-e” onto both wyrtgeard and wægen to give the dative case.

This brings us to “went to sleep in the garden”. If you mean “fell asleep in the garden” I would use “onslep in wyrtgearde”. If you meant “went into the garden to sleep” I would use “eode in wyrtgeard to restenne/slæpenne”.

When “in” means “in/on” (being in/on this place) it takes the dative case. When “in” means “into/onto” (motion into/onto this place) it takes the accusative case. Earlier for heall and cycene the dative and accusative were identical.

In my dictionary it says that you can use the instrumental case instead of the dative. I would not use that as it sounds very old. The instrumental case ending for masculine and neuter nouns was “-i” but that is archaic old English. Even at that time there was no instrumental case for feminine nouns.

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #32 on: June 16, 2015, 10:07:34 AM »

When “in” means “in/on” (being in/on this place) it takes the dative case. When “in” means “into/onto” (motion into/onto this place) it takes the accusative case. Earlier for heall and cycene the dative and accusative were identical.


So - it's like German then. Thank you David, that makes sense.

I am having a bit of trouble with some of the phrasing so as always appreciate ideas. This is the last section, so thank you for your patience! I hope it has been interesting at least.

For your troubles I now present the noisy Sun :)

In our final instalment, we catch up with Mr Bear who has gone to try and find some shut-eye in his car. Unfortunately the world has other ideas; but [SPOILER ALERT] it all turns out alright in the end, thanks to Mrs Bear!

"It was cold in the car and uncomfortable but Mr Bear was so tired he didn’t notice. He was just falling asleep when all the birds started to sing and the sun peeped in at the window
“Tweet tweet” went the birds
“Shine shine” went the sun
“Oh no,” said Mr Bear, “I can’t stand this!” So he got up and went back into the house.

In the house Baby Bear was fast asleep and Mrs Bear had turned over and she wasn’t snoring any more. Mr Bear got into bed and closed his eyes. “Peace at last!” he said to himself.

“Bring! bring! bring!” went the alarm clock.
Mrs Bear sat up and rubbed her eyes. “Good morning, dear,” she said. “Did you sleep well?”
 “Not very well, dear,”  yawned Mr Bear
“Never mind,” said Mrs Bear, “I’ll bring you a nice cup of tea.”
And she did."

Hit wæs ceald in þæm wægene and unsoftne ac Fæder Bera wæs wel werig and he ne cepde. Swa onslep he swa begannan singan ealle fugolas and scan seo sunne  þurh eagþyrele
 “TWEET TWEET” sangaþ þa fugolas
“Scin! Scin!” scan seo sunne
“Eala nese,” saegde Fæder Bera, “þis me ne licaþ!” Swa aras he and cirrde ongean to huse

In þæm huse wæs Lyteling Bera fulslæpende and Modor Bera wæs ymbhweorfende and þan hie ne fnærde
Faeder Bera laeg on þaem bedde and his eagan beclysdon
“Sibb aet nyhstan” saegde he to selfe

 “BRING BRING BRING”  bodode wæcbelle
Modor Bera awæcode and agnide hiere eagan. “Godne mergen, deor,” saegde hie. “Slæpdest þu wel?”
 “Ne ful wel, deor” ginode Fæder Bera
 “Sarig þe to hierde” saegde Modor Bera “ic bringe þe leoflican te-drinca”
Swa dyde hie.  :-*


Soþlice :)


Phyllis

David

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #33 on: June 16, 2015, 03:38:30 PM »

This was a surprise, I was thinking of an electric light.

I have made a few points but, on the whole, I think that you did a difficult job very well.

Several times you used “hie” for she where I would have expected “heo”. Was this a mistake or is this dialect, “eo” does change to “ie” under i-mutation?

Sangaþ should be sungon.
Þaem should be þæm.
Beclysdon should be beclysde.
Sibb is fine but I would prefer stillnes and it is more like modern English.
Agnide should be agnad.
Godne should be god. Also I prefer morgen to mergen and it is closer to the modern English.
I think that ful wel should be full wel or even to wel.

I don’t know about “te” I would have left it out.

David

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #34 on: June 16, 2015, 03:54:10 PM »

I have just been thinking about “never mind”. How about “ne sarga” or “ne sara”?

Bowerthane

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #35 on: June 17, 2015, 02:14:04 PM »
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
When “in” means “in/on” (being in/on this place) it takes the dative case. When “in” means “into/onto” (motion into/onto this place) it takes the accusative case.
_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________


Well I said this was too jammy, and now this.  Though I prefer on to in.  Trying to find a bum-steer for how to distinguish on = ‘in/ inside’ from on = ‘into/ towards’ is a point I, too, was stuck upon. 

Sorry I don’t seem to be much help to you, Phyllis, but your thread is definitely helping me.

David, can I make absolutely sure that I am right to expect that this rule holds good for articles and pronouns, too?  By which I mean that on þone/ þæt/ þá/ þá does mean “into/ towards the-something-masculine/ the-something-neuter/ the-something-feminine/ them” whereas on þǽm/ þǽm/ þǽre/ þǽm still means “in/ inside the-something-masculine/ the-something-neuter/ the-something-feminine/ those” respectively?

Likewise, on hine/ hit/ híe/ híe definitely means ‘into/ towards him/ her/ it/ them’ whereas on him/ him/ hi(e)re/ him still means ‘in/ inside him/ it/ her/ them’ as it ought to, if there’s any justice in the world?

The bit of translation I’m fumbling with involves a reference back to a country that is grammatically feminine in Old English which, thanks to you, I now think should be ac  híe wandraþ on híe for “but they wander into it”, as well as a few ons before articles or just nouns.  Of these the knottiest is “on the right” ( as opposed the left) which I now think should be on þá rihthand in full, and not on þǽre rihthanda which, I’m supposing, could mean only ‘in a physical right hand’.

Granted that I am right that the Old English never used riht on its own to refer to the opposite to left.

( Or is there still ::)  some funny business I should know about?)


David

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #36 on: June 17, 2015, 10:01:54 PM »

Beowerthane

The idea does extend to pronouns and adjectives.

For left and right try winestra and swiþra which are comparative adjectives. You can find them in Bosworth and Toller. Swiþra is not so easy to find but it is under swiþ, section II. I guess there were no left handed Anglo-Saxons.

I am afraid that I am rather busy at the moment I shall quiet on the site.

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #37 on: June 19, 2015, 03:56:05 PM »
Many thanks again David - I shall correct as you suggest. I was having a total brainstorn with hie instead of heo! Don't mind me, I'll just be lying down in a dark room.

I had used sibb as I think I saw it in a Gospel but you are completely right - stilnes is much better!

Once I have updated the final batch I will put up the full transcript as a separate post in case anyone wants to use it for an event as well. Then I will write it up in an uncial hand so I have a proper story book for when we go to Stamford Bridge in September :)

I really appreciate everyone's help on here. You are all totally amazing, patient and generous  ;D

If things go well at Stamford Bridge and people are interested I might try a similar exercise with another story in the Autumn.

Wesan ge hal!

Phyllis

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #38 on: June 19, 2015, 08:07:16 PM »
Bowerthane, you asked about 'on the left' and 'on the right'


For some reason, the phrases tō wynstrum and to swīþrum popped unbidden into my tiny but pulsating brain. I put tō wynstrum into Google and got back two wonderful things. The first was a confirmation that my instincts may well have been correct:


The verse from Matthew 26:41 -


'Then shall he say unto them on the left hand, Depart from me ye cursed into everlasting fire'


'þa coeðes he tō ðæm ðaðe to wynstrum biðon: offstiges, gie awoergedo, from me, in ðæt ecce fyr'


As you can see, this isn't the West Saxon we all know and love from our teaching materials. The second great thing the google search brought is that this translation of Matthew is in a book that purports to be the gospels in the Northumbrian variant of Old English.


https://books.google.ca/books?id=-uVUAAAAcAAJ&pg=PA63&lpg=PA63&dq=to+wynstrum&source=bl&ots=R1nja7amQa&sig=NrCZ0YdZeMk9PMcmG4GK2KTamIM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=NWGEVfbLMM-XyATYrIOoDg&ved=0CCYQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q&f=false

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #39 on: June 20, 2015, 11:00:46 AM »
Hello again!

I have amended the text as guided by various people, mainly David, and here is the final version. If anyone spots any further corrections I would love to know.

I am including both Word and PDF versions so hopefully you will be able to read at least one. Let me know if another format would be helpful.

I have also numbered the sections so if you do have a comment on wording, please can you help by saying which section it is in?

It seemed to me it might be of use to other groups for events :)

Wesan ge hal

Phyllis
scop-in-training :))


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Phyllis

Phyllis

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Re: Children's storytime
« Reply #40 on: July 22, 2015, 09:41:22 PM »
Greetings once more!

I am uploading a revised version of the story with the sound effects in approximate Old Englisc spelling in case anyone wants them - if you can improve on them please feel free as they are basically phonetic

Wesan ge hal!



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« Last Edit: July 23, 2015, 07:52:41 PM by Phyllis »
Phyllis