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Author Topic: Little Red Hen  (Read 7403 times)

Phyllis

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Little Red Hen
« on: November 24, 2015, 10:50:46 AM »
Eala!

I have been working on another (public domain) children's story to avoid possible issues with copyright. I wrote down my own version of "The Little Red Hen" and then had a go at translation.

The fruits of my labour are below - if anyone has a chance to review I would really appreciate it. I found this story worked really well as the vocabulary is all about farming and food, so not too difficult to work with.

I would also add that I am keeping to dative for nouns following prepositions. I know we had some discussion about this previously, and it is quite a confusing area. David Hinch reminded us that some prepositions take accusative when implying movement, like modern German (I think that's right, David?) but the gesithas correspondence course does not follow this rule.  So I asked our correspondence course tutor who suggested it may be either / or. For simplicity's sake I am sticking to dative in all cases.

I am also attaching a draft Word version for convenience :)

Anyway, are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin...

Once upon a time there was a Little Red Hen who lived on a farm with a duck, a cat and a dog.
One day when she was in the fields, she found a grain of wheat
   
On þæm dæge wunode Lytel Ræd Hæn on stowe wiþ ducan, catte and hunde.
Swa wæs heo on þa æcerum, swa fand heo hwætecorn

"This wheat should be planted," she said.
"Who will plant this grain of wheat?"

Man plantie þisne hwæte, sægde heo
Hwa plantie þisne hwætecorn?

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog

Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did

Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa dyde heo

Soon the wheat grew tall and golden

Eftsona greow se hwæte heah and gylden

"The wheat is ripe," said the Little Red Hen
"Who will cut the wheat?"

Se hwæte is ripe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Hwa heawe þisne hwæte

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
   
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
   
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa dyde heo

When the wheat was cut, the Little Red Hen said
"Who will thresh this wheat ?"
   
Swa wæs se hwæte geheawen swa sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Hwa þersce þisne hwæte

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
   
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
   
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa dyde heo

When the wheat was threshed, the Little Red Hen said
"Who will take this wheat to the mill?"
   
Swa wæs se hwæte geþorscen, swa sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Hwa nime þisne hwæte to þæm mylene

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
   
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
   
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa dyde heo

She took the wheat to the mill and ground it into flour
Then she said
"Who will bake this flour into bread?"
   
Seo nom þone hwæte to þæm mylene and grand hine to melu
Swa sægde heo
Hwa bæce þis melu to hlafe

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
   
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
   
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa dyde heo

When the bread was ready she said
"Who will eat this bread?"
   
Swa wæs se hlaf gearu swa sægde heo
Hwa ete þisne hlaf

"Oh! I will," said the Duck
"Oh! I will," said the Cat
"Oh! I will," said the Dog
   
Ea, ic wille, sægde seo duce
Ea, ic wille, sægde se catt
Ea, ic wille, sægde se hund

"Oh no!" said the Little Red Hen
"I will do it myself."
So she did   

Eala nese, sægde seo Lytel Ræd Hæn
Swa do ic selfe
Swa heo dyde




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Phyllis

john gilberthorpe

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2015, 04:37:05 PM »
This is great, Phyllis, I love it. I'm a beginner with the language so forgive me if my comments are off track. It interests me how a simple children's story can make you think about how to use the language. I've been familiar with this tale from my own childhood and reading it to my children and grandchildren. It's really a morality lesson, of course, pointing out that if you're not prepared to put in the work, you don't deserve the rewards. You use the subjunctive to express LRH's uncertainty, I suppose, as to whether she'll get the help she wants. Does it, though, express the idea of willingness? Thinking about it, I'm not sure how you would do that in AS. You can say Hwa wile þisne  hwætcorn plantian, but would this lose the idea that you can be willing to do something without wanting to? In the version I'm familiar with, LRH asks who will help her plant etc so I suppose you could say "Hwa helpe me [/size]þisne hwaetcorn plantian?" or "Hwa me fultumie [/size]þisne..." or what about "Hwa wile [/size]þ[/size]æt he me fultumie [/size]þisne hw[/size]ætcorn plantian?" I'm not suggesting you adopt my meanderings, only that someone far better informed than I might comment on them! One other point: Would it be appropriate to say "Man sceolde  [/size]þisne hw[/size]æt plantian"? I hope you get lots of feedback on this as I think it can be a very good learning tool as well being a lovely presentation of the old tale. Thank you! John

culfer

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2015, 06:38:03 PM »
I am loving these children's stories in Old English. They are really helping me learn, and I love reading them out loud. I just read this one out loud and my boyfriend thought I was crazy.

David

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #3 on: November 25, 2015, 10:24:06 AM »



It is good to see another translation. However, like John, I was surprised by the use of the subjunctive, I would have used the normal indicative. Can you explain that one to us.

I assume you use wiþ instead of mid to make it sound more like modern English. Therefore I was surprised to see you using the passive “man”. Also instead of “ræd hæn” you could have used “reod hen”.
 
Finally for “the little red hen” you need to use the weak form of the adjectives so “a little red hen” is “lytel reord hen” but “the little red hen” is “seo lytele reode hen”. 

Phyllis

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #4 on: November 28, 2015, 06:18:41 PM »
Thanks for all the comments - I will try and look at them soon, but am in the midst of job interviews (having become unemployed recently).

I was trying to use subjunctive to express uncertainty, but perhaps that doesn't work? Further ideas welcome on that!

As for this bit:
"This wheat should be planted," she said.
"Who will plant this grain of wheat?"

I suppose they are really the same sentence, in many ways. I'll think more about that - it was why I struggled with it, you are right to spot the problems! Perhaps I might use John's version of "who will help me...?"

David - thanks also for the pointer on weak adjectives - again I'll try and tidy up.

Bear with me while I do my interview (and visit Sutton Hoo next weekend for the language course - ridiculously excited as it's my first time!). Hopefully I can get a revised version up in a couple of weeks

Meanwhile any more thoughts to help are always appreciated. You are all just marvellous

Wesan ge hal
Phyllis
Phyllis

David

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #5 on: November 29, 2015, 10:04:51 AM »



I am happy with “This wheat should be planted” being the subjunctive. “should” seems to trigger the subjunctive. On the other hand “Who will plant this grain of wheat?” is just a straight forward question which I would translate as “Hwa plantaþ þisne hwætcorn?”
 
My modern English for John’s suggestions would be:-
 
Hwa me helpe þisne hwætcorn plantian?
Who would help me to plant this grain of wheat?
 
Hwa wile þæt he help me þisne hwætcorn plantian?
Who wants to help me plant this grain of corn?

Phyllis

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #6 on: January 25, 2016, 11:30:10 AM »
Dear all

well that was a longer break than expected - job hunting being very pressing and so far fruitless.

More importantly here's the final draft of Little Red Hen. I have tried to catch all the points made, and in once casr re-phrased the ME to make it closer to the OE!

Once upon a time there was a Little Red Hen who lived on a farm with a duck, a cat and a dog.
On þæm dæge wunode Lytel Reord Hen on stowe wiþ ducan, catte and hunde

One day when she was in the fields, she found a grain of wheat
Swa wæs heo on þa æcerum, swa fand heo hwætecorn

"Someone should plant this wheat," she said.
Man plantie þisne hwæte, sægde heo

"Who will plant this grain of wheat?"
Hwa plantaþ þisne hwætecorn?

"Not I," said the Duck
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa dyde heo

Soon the wheat grew tall and golden
Eftsona greow se hwæte heah and gylden

"The wheat is ripe," said the Little Red Hen
Se hwæte is ripe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen

"Who will cut the wheat?"
Hwa heawe þisne hwæte?

"Not I," said the Duck 
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa dyde heo

When the wheat was cut, the Little Red Hen said
"Who will thresh this wheat ?"
Swa wæs se hwæte geheawen swa sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Hwa þersce þisne hwæte?

"Not I," said the Duck 
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa dyde heo

When the wheat was threshed, the Little Red Hen said
"Who will take this wheat to the mill?"
Swa wæs se hwæte geþorscen, swa sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Hwa nime þisne hwæte to þæm mylene?

"Not I," said the Duck 
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa dyde heo

She took the wheat to the mill and ground it into flour
Then she said
"Who will bake this flour into bread?"
Seo nom þone hwæte to þæm mylene and grand hine to melu
Swa sægde heo
Hwa bæce þis melu to hlafe?

"Not I," said the Duck 
"Not I," said the Cat
"Not I," said the Dog
Ne ic, sægde seo duce
Ne ic, sægde se catt
Ne ic, sægde se hund

"Then I will do it myself," said the Little Red Hen
So she did
Swa do ic selfe, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa dyde heo

When the bread was ready she said
"Who will eat this bread?"
Swa wæs se hlaf gearu swa sægde heo
Hwa ete þisne hlaf?

"Oh! I will," said the Duck 
"Oh! I will," said the Cat
"Oh! I will," said the Dog
Ea, ic wille, sægde seo duce
Ea, ic wille, sægde se catt
Ea, ic wille, sægde se hund

"Oh no!" said the Little Red Hen
"I will do it myself."
So she did   
Eala nese, sægde seo Lytele Reode Hen
Swa do ic selfe
Swa heo dyde


Phyllis

David

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #7 on: January 25, 2016, 05:45:59 PM »
Just a little inconsistency. You changed "Who will plant..." from the subjunctive to the indicative. However all the later similar questions you left in the subjunctive.

Michael Æðeling

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2016, 12:53:17 AM »
This is wonderful.

May I ask though, in the first sentence, does wiþ not mean "against"? I had thought the OE word for with is "mid", whereas wiþ meant against, a meaning still communicated in withdrawal, withstand, whereas the meaning of "mid" (as in modern German "mit") is retained in midwife and midshipman.

David

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #9 on: January 28, 2016, 10:17:07 AM »
This is wonderful.

May I ask though, in the first sentence, does wiþ not mean "against"? I had thought the OE word for with is "mid", whereas wiþ meant against, a meaning still communicated in withdrawal, withstand, whereas the meaning of "mid" (as in modern German "mit") is retained in midwife and midshipman.

You are basically correct in saying that “mid” means “with” and “wið” means “against”. However there are complications. I do not believe that “mid” can be used for “with” when that meaning is against as in “She was fighting with him” meaning that she was fighting against him.

“Wið” is more complicated and takes several meanings including “with”, both meaning along side and against. Also “wið” can take different cases; accusative, genitive and dative. I try to avoid “wið”. For the fighting “with” I think you can use “wið” for alongside, when I believe it takes the accusative case, and also for against, when I believe it takes the dative or even the genitive case. At least I think those are the rules. The trouble is that I do not trust the Anglo-Saxons to play by the rules.

I think that Phyllis used “wið” rather than “mid” because it is more like the modern English. Then she used “hunde” instead of “hund” becaude she thinks it takes the dative case.

Phyllis

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Re: Little Red Hen
« Reply #10 on: February 21, 2016, 05:10:24 PM »
Dear all

Apologies for my absence - after all the job hunting I finally got a temp job and have been getting back into the swing of earning an honest crust.

Meanwhile, thank you for all your comments. I think I am finally there and attach the pretty handout version of the story. I'll send it on to our webþegn shortly to add to the site.

I'm not planning any more stories for a while, although I am thinking of The Enormous Turnip and The Magic Porridge Pot as future candidates. Unless anyone else fancies a go first? I realise I need to do lots more work on my grasp of englisc first. Hopefully these will keep people happy at any events you are involved in.

Wesan ge hal!




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Phyllis