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Author Topic: Translation plse plus other  (Read 4589 times)

Wayne Aelfhere

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Translation plse plus other
« on: June 15, 2020, 03:14:25 PM »

Greetings friends,
I wondered if I might ask for your help in translating into old English the beginning of a prayer?

The words are: "To dear Tiw, to my dear mother & brother and to the dear spirit of nature herself"

Two part question:
I was hoping 1) just to have a literal translation of the text.
I got scared when I realised that "to my...." might involve a different case....dative?? And genitive for "spirit of nature"? Plus trying to get the correct senses of the words "spirit" and "nature". Dictionaries of course don't help with context!

And 2) did Anglo Saxons worship a 'spirit of nature' per se? The phrase conjures up the deity I want to honour but for the Anglo Saxons (for whom nature was of course important) are we getting into elves, wights etc.,?
Ought I be praying to a whole host of elves?
The "wights" according to certain authors, are cognate with our "spirit or sense of place" but I've only heard of landwights - not wights of sea & air etc. I wish to honour the totality of nature.
This has me perplexed & I can't find anything decent on AS relationship with/veneration of  nature.

So, over to you! If I only get an answer to question 1 I'd be happy. 2 might be a long discussion!
Best wishes to all & many many thanks in advance for any help you can give.
Thanks,
Wayne.
« Last Edit: June 15, 2020, 03:18:15 PM by Wayne Aelfhere »

David

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2020, 05:45:33 PM »

 For the translation you could try
Tō lēofe Tīwe, tō mīnre lēofan mēder and brēðer and tō þǣm ġesceaftes gāste selfe
 

Phyllis

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2020, 10:01:15 AM »

 For the translation you could try
Tō lēofe Tīwe, tō mīnre lēofan mēder and brēðer and tō þǣm ġesceaftes gāste selfe
 


Might we want to throw in an additional "leofan" at "þǣm leofan ġesceaftes gāste selfe"?

Meanwhile if you can get a copy Stephen Pollington's book on "The Elder Gods" is very comprehensive. It's a little pricey but well worth the investment if this is an area you are interested in. I do have a copy if you want a particular thing looking up!

Also - welcome!

Phyllis

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #3 on: June 17, 2020, 11:58:20 PM »
Thank you so much - I really appreciate it, the welcome also! Translation looks great.
I will have a look for Pollingtons book. It's certainly an area which I'd like to study in greater depth.
Thank you once again.
Wayne

Phyllis

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #4 on: June 18, 2020, 07:49:02 AM »
I'd be interested if you find other good sources too - to be honest it's a bit of a minefield as I'm sure you can imagine!
Phyllis

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #5 on: June 18, 2020, 01:08:02 PM »
Yes it seems not so straight forward! I'm going to re-interrogate my Aleric Albertsson books & maybe just start compiling some random notes which I could share with you. Looking out for a 2nd hand copy of Pollingtons book too.
Thanks again guys.
Best wishes
Wayne

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #6 on: June 18, 2020, 01:15:57 PM »
David, I've just realised it's your good self Mr Hinch. *Big friendly wave* :)  I hope you're well.
Best wishes
Wayne

David

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #7 on: June 18, 2020, 09:52:21 PM »

Wayne,


Don't tell anyone. We have user names to hide our identities. I'm doing the double bluff.

David

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #8 on: June 19, 2020, 07:51:25 AM »
 Wayne, I was only kidding in my last post. However, I did notice an error in my translation, apart from the omission that Phyllis pointed out.
“Tō lēofe Tīwe …” should have been “Tō lēofum Tīwe …”, i.e. the dative not the instrumental.

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #9 on: June 19, 2020, 08:13:06 PM »
Thanks David. No, I like the air of mystery now ... we're like early mediaeval MI5. 8)

Phyllis

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #10 on: June 21, 2020, 10:44:04 AM »
All cloak and dagger?  ::)
Phyllis

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #11 on: June 21, 2020, 02:22:33 PM »
 ;D ;D haha indeed!

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #12 on: June 21, 2020, 03:12:08 PM »
I had another translation thought, if you would be so kind as to assist.
If I wanted to say:.."...and to all the benevolent spirits of nature...."
Would that be:
".....and to ealle welwillendeum gastum gesceaftes...."
Feel free to tear it apart, I promise I won't cry.

David

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #13 on: June 21, 2020, 04:15:57 PM »
 That looks pretty good. I would just change “ēalle welwillendeum” to “ēallum welwillendum”.

Wayne Aelfhere

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Re: Translation plse plus other
« Reply #14 on: June 22, 2020, 01:39:39 AM »
Thanks David. Nice to know I wasn't a million miles away!  ;D :D